How do the cyberattacks of the invaders reflect? How open are registers for citizens? What about the traditional threat from the raiders? And how can you accelerate the removal of property of Russian oligarchs in favor of the state? The head of the Office of Combating the Rainmark of the Ministry of Justice of Ukraine Viktor Dubovik spoke about it on the air of Radio NV.
How actively the Russian invaders operating in cyberspace, a year ago, accompanied the military invasion of important Ukrainian resources, in particular on state registers? - On February 24, 2022, in addition to the apparent military aggression that we all saw and understood, a very powerful attack on public resources - information bases, state registers, etc. began.
The Ministry of Justice, which is responsible for the preservation of information in these state registers, has begun to take active measures to resist this powerful cybergrome. I really doubt that somewhere else in the world have similar experiences of counteracting such large -scale threats.
In the first hours of a full-scale military invasion, it became clear that there was an attack on two key state registers-the State Register and public formations (where information about owners of legal entities, legal companies, natural persons - entrepreneurs). These two registers were decided to close from the outside. This was done so that Russian hackers could not get this information.
We understood that this could create some inconvenience to citizens who were in territories where there were no active fighting and economic activity. However, given the high risks of receiving data on the property of Ukrainian citizens of Ukraine, we have chosen a model for preserving information in the state registers and their protection. Further practice has shown that it was a good and timely solution that made no important information neither the internal enemy nor the external.
And even more so make changes to the state registers, changing the property of citizens. Therefore, the state in this part, as well as the Armed Forces of Ukraine, was able to defend itself and did it in time and quite effectively. What was the purpose of invasion of the aggressor into Ukrainian state registers? The enemy sought to create chaos within the country? - This is the first goal. And the second is to access valuable information.
All this time, we moved to Europe and, accordingly, digitalization was one of the areas of activity of the whole state. And the transfer of the information that we have always stored on paper, in electronic registers, was also one of the tasks. And the amount of data stored in these state registers is an invaluable luggage of information for the aggressor country. However, their actions - both physical and technical - proved to be poor. Therefore, they could not get any valuable information.
Residents of the Ukrainian territories liberated from the occupation of the Ukrainian territories have lists of local weapons owners. They came to these people home, and even knew about the number of weapons. Could the occupiers receive this data from the state registers of weapons owners? - From the registers for which the Ministry of Justice is responsible - no.
The Ministry of Justice does not respond to the register of weapons owners, so I can only talk about real estate registers and legal entities. How do these important state registers work today? On the one hand, the country is war, and on the other - life continues and the economy must work. - After the first radical steps in the form of full blocking of registers, the state realized that it is necessary to start their partial opening.
Because economic activity goes to military rails, but it is also in civil circulation. Therefore, since the beginning of March, the gradual opening of state registers begins, and permission to carry out such registration actions will be granted only certain circles of persons. At the first stage, only the representatives of the Ministry of Justice were granted permission, who had to take certain registration actions, such as a change in legal entities.
After all, many volunteers went to the front - legal entities were left without a leadership that should act on behalf of these companies. The gradual restoration of economic activity began. In the future, certain state registrars of local self -government bodies and notaries were granted permission for registration actions. At this time, the full restoration of access to the state registers, as it was before February 24, 2022, has not yet taken place.
But in my opinion, the state registers will work in full only after our victory. Along with the main danger - military aggression of the occupation troops, there is another danger - internal. Is there a activation of raiders who decide to take advantage of the external invasion of the country? What is the current situation? - Very interesting statistics.
First, if we compare, for example, with the Ministry of Internal Affairs to reduce the number of crimes committed since the beginning of the war, then I can say that the number of attempts to commit raider seizures of property has decreased. I understand that our inner enemy, probably, still decided that it was not a time to do it. According to statistics of 2022, the number of illegal raider seizures decreased.
And so those who would like to take the moment, in my opinion, either went abroad, or are afraid of the state's reactions to their illegal actions to raider the seizure of property. We remember that from 2016 to 2019, there was a certain raiding in the country, a lot of black registrars and black notaries worked. And if the state did not take precautionary measures in 2020, it is unclear what the situation would be now.
But the legislative changes, as well as the relevant work of the Ministry of Justice and law enforcement agencies, were allowed to make it that during the greatest threat - military aggression - so many cases decreased, even when compared with 2021. You mentioned the rampant of black raiders and black notaries, it was not so long ago.
And what was the basis for this? Why did it happen in the country? - There were a lot of grounds, because at that time, due to certain legislative changes in 2015-2016, an important sphere of state registration was deducted for the redemption of the so -called municipal enterprises, which existed a lot throughout the country. Such number was argued allegedly by the need of citizens in entities that can amend state registers to avoid queues, inconveniences, etc.
In fact, we got that the keys of access to the state registers were received by people who did not exist. Because the system was built in such a way that it was enough to send documents to the appropriate body by mail, without personal presence, and in response to obtain the key with access to the State Register. Only a copy of the passport was enough, and it was already possible to make changes, to take illegal registration actions, which resulted in the raider seizure of property.
The then Justice Minister Pavel Petrenko assured that the system is absolutely reliable, and there is an effective punishment for trying to interfere with the operation of registers. Is that really so? - If we were reliable by that time, there would be no black raiders, black notaries and so on. Only during 2020, the Ministry of Justice was already able to stop the activity of about 20 black notaries who committed illegal actions throughout the country.
These names were known to all, and the guilty is already received. But only with the change of the power team did political will of such actions occur. What are the most risky actions related to property registration? Can you give examples? - Probably, we need to start with the most socially significant actions that are concerned and are problematic. First of all, it is the primary registration of real estate.
This is what we call new buildings and unfinished ones is the cause of rallies and outrage of the community. This is one of the most risky actions. As the people who invested in their home in 2020-2021 are currently expecting construction. But because of the legal problems that have arisen from the customer, the housing developer at the stage of construction approval at the stage of receiving land for such construction, some people cannot get their home.
We understand how such an explosion can occur. The second socially significant and significant action is the relationship between borrowers and banking institutions regarding the mortgage. To stay without housing now when your home is selected by a banking institution due to the inability to pay the mortgage in full and, accordingly, the inability to provide yourself with housing is very dangerous.
We take this into account, and therefore the registration actions for the collection of such housing are now prohibited by the state. That is, the penalty is exclusively on the sentence of the court? Does the mechanism work now? - There is an extrajudicial mechanism for recovery, but it acted before the start of full -scale military aggression.
Currently, it is impossible to come to a notary or to the state registrar and to issue the transfer of ownership from an individual of the housing owner to a legal entity - a bank or credit institution. Because the state understands the social significance of such processes. Such conflicts are now resolved only in court. That is, it is impossible to come and pick up your home, even if you have some delay in the mortgage, because everyone understands modern economic realities.
And unfortunately, it was impossible to provide economic yield, payment of even credit obligations, as it was by February 24. Do you now record contradictory episodes when raiders want to seize real estate for some time, knowing that the owner will return later? It can be an enterprise from which the equipment, equipment will be removed, and eventually the owner will remain the bare walls. How much do raiders practice such hobbies? By the way, it was typical in the field of agricultural complex . . .
- absolutely correct. In addition, we have recently been working on the land market where there were risks related to the alienation of the sites. The laid legislative model helps to improve the investment climate. I can safely say that in the question of agricultural land, we do not have raider actions at all - just zero. In the years when this model was introduced. We now talk only about agricultural land, and only in the procedure of alienation of these land plots, when ownership is acquired.
After we have opened the full land market, the introduced model fully ensures the safety of land rights. Raider actions were widespread in the form of first registration actions, and then the force of harvest and land, etc. This was due to a change in the State Register of Legal Entities, Individuals - Entrepreneurs and Public Formations.
The reason is quite simple - it was enough to bring the protocol in the usual written form, to write on a simple white sheet about the transition of ownership of corporate rights from citizen A to citizen B that the state registrar had to register. The legislation was built in this way. The fake of such documents was common. It was enough to come and show that there were any signatures.
Not necessarily these signatures were relevant, they were checked in criminal proceedings - an expertise was conducted. And the harvest was already stolen. - And the registrar was in the scheme, did he just seem to understand anything? Very often, the state registrar was not aware that he was provided with counterfeit documents. Later, changes were made, which allowed such state registration only on notarial forms.
It was necessary to come to a notary who had to identify the persons who contact him. All this complicated the procedure, so for the raiders the issue became irrelevant due to economic disadvantage. But this direction affects the issue important for the state - the product security of Ukraine. - That's right. We understand that grain we have a strategic product, and at this time everyone is working to ensure that the safety component of the food industry is guaranteed.
We currently have a grain agreement, and fortunately, after the release of the island, Snake Ukraine has resumed domination in the relevant part of the Black Sea. For many years, the Russian business and Russian oligarchy have deeply integrated into the structure of the Ukrainian economy. Of course, it was planned, working on this long years. It is now said that the Russian oligarchy should be deprived of these assets in Ukraine, and the assets must work for our country.
How active is the search and deprivation of Russian oligarchs, which are somehow involved in the war, their assets? What is the position of your committee and the Ministry of Justice, to prevent the re-registration of Russian assets for gaskets, offshore? - It is probably that the sub -persons do not sit and observe how the state of Ukraine is quite legitimately picks up the property.
These persons are a strong resistance due to the corruption of certain institutions and investing in the conservation of these assets. Avoiding sanctions is the number one purpose for them. But, fortunately, we are quite active in law enforcement agencies that find attempts to such illegal registration actions and withdraw from the legal field of Ukraine.
We are actively responsible for this important area of the Department of Sanctional Policy of the Ministry of Justice, which reports the established facts to law enforcement agencies, the Office of Combating Raiding, which has the authority to abolish such illegal actions in the form of attempts to avoid sanctions and exit from the legal field of Ukraine.
The mechanism works as follows: law enforcement agencies, in particular the Department of Protection of National Statehood within the SBU, apply to the Ministry of Justice with a corresponding complaint, which is asked to cancel registration actions aimed at avoiding the effect of sanction legislation. And we respond and cancel. Such orders have already been published on the website of the Ministry of Justice, you can read them and see the effectiveness of this mechanism.
It is no longer possible to avoid sanction lists. But Russian oligarchs can act through ten gaskets registered in offshore areas. What then to do? - So it happens. To do this, we have a Supreme Anti -Corruption Court, which is considering the relevant cases - to attempt to avoid sanctions in the form of registration of assets for false persons, in the form of cases, when we sell assets for tens of millions of dollars for three thousand euros.
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